What constitutes gay?
August 30, 2006So yesterday I was watching the movie “The Longest Yard” again…B-movie featuring Adam Sandler as a point-shaving quarterback who goes to jail and then takes a bunch of inmates and makes them into a football team to play the guards. Anyhow, that isn’t the point…while watching the movie, I remembered a debate my friends and I had, and I wanted to bring the question we debated to you: what constitutes gay?
The reason that this movie brought that back that conversation was that in this movie there are some men who are the ‘girls’ of the jail – dress up in women’s clothing, perform sexual acts on the other inmates etc – and there is a humorous scene where you see one of the inmates kisses another. Anyhow, during our conversation one of my friends said that anyone who engages in a homosexual act is gay. So, I asked, would this make those men in jail who get sexual acts performed upon them by other men gay?
Does a lone act of homosexuality mean you are gay? Yes? No? If not, then where is the line, if there is a line, drawn? 5? 10? And if yes, is the definition different for men and women? I know a number of girls who have made out with other girls, but no one calls them gay. Why? Is it because they are doing it to mess with the heads (no pun intended) of the surrounding males, stimulating the fantasy of being with two women at once, and thus, because they are doing to tease and not for pleasure, they are not gay? Or is it because society is more lax when it comes to women (if two men did that would the reaction be the same)?
Or is being gay a frame of mind? The dictionary says that being gay (homosexual) means “Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex”. So, if we take that to be general definition, then what do you tell my friend is the sexual orientation of those prisoners that have sex, oral or anal, with other prisoners? Are they gay, or simply out of loneliness/desperation/desire, have resorted to same-sex experiences?
Just some random questions I thought I would boil down into a post…Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Taps
I have comments I’ll reserve for later – but the Longest Yard was a solid movie…especially the 7 foot punjabi guy.
Done. We can talk over beer.
And dude, Indian basketball should just be built around that guy…seriously…
You can’t define gay by the act, but by the intention, I think. Girls who kiss girls to make their boyfriends excited aren’t gay because they don’t really enjoy kissing girls. Men who only have sex with other men when there are no women around aren’t gay for the same reason. There are men (and women) who actually do enjoy it, but lie to themselves and others about that fact. Those people are gay (and lame). That’s why the new AIDSpeak for the “gay” risk group is MSM for Men who have Sex with Men. Also, I think it’s a misnomer to label everything so black and white as “gay” and “straight.” But I do that all the time, much to horror of my bi friends.
Being gay is a state of mind, and there are two states to consider: the person and the observer. The definition—and therefore the outcome—will differ based on perspective.
A person can be gay and celibate, so it has nothing to do with having sex. A person otherwise considered heterosexual does not become un-heterosexual simply by abstaining from sex. A person can have sex with a member of the same sex without considering him or herself gay, not to mention experimentation and curiosity factors.
I know gay people who consider themselves gay. Just ask them. I also know people who engage in same-sex relationships that decidedly do not consider themselves gay. They consider a gay person someone who identifies with the so-called Gay Movement—the political voice of gays.
Of course, the observer doesn’t necessarily care about this nuance and would likely label these people gay. So then whose perspective matters? The bigger issue is why does it matter?
Finally, I know of a certain male who had sexual relations with other men—oral and anal penetration—for pay, but he did not consider himself gay. There were two reasons: (1) he did it for the money, and (2) he wasn’t the receiver. Whether he enjoyed the orgasm, I guess, remains to be seen. At the time, I told him of course he was gay, and he was offended offering the reasons listed above.
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Sexual orientation is determined by who you fall in love with.
Ref: Dan Savage
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okay come on you guys, i am no innocent chick. and have experimented in almost every way possible. so if my male fiance, who has had 7 experiences with other men, and over 50 women, and one 12 year old virgin girl (gross and illegal) he got prison for that one, anyway, do any of you think he is possi8bly going to be rehabilitative or whatever. he wants to marry me in 38 days – NOT – i mean we all experiment, but this shit doesnt seem right. this is very important. i welcome any views no matter how harsh. email me at snoopkel@yahoo.com or call me at 262-751-2878. thank you sooooo much. also, dont crackl up (cuz i am) if i let him do me in the butt, why would he still want a guy? maybe sounds stupid, but i am just curious! thanks for any feedback!!!
i think this is a loaded question, pun intended.
the problem with the heteronormative binary is that, like kathryn said, it makes things black and white. life isn’t black and white; it’s all sorts of shades and everything in between. we’re just scared of “the other.” that being said, most relationships do tend to have a masculine/feminine balance, but many do not: butch/butch, fem/fem, etc. once you get into advanced queer theory, even gender is critiqued, deconstructed and even thrown out, but that’s too off the chain with it, colloquially put.
to answer your question, the inmates who have sex with the same sex wouldn’t necessarily be gay, per se, but their acts are, indeed, homosexual. but i think one can be gay without even having experienced a homosexual act; one just knows. the trouble with the word gay is that it refers to biological sexual orientation, but also “gay culture.” whether you think such culture exists, that’s another story. glbtq people, like all humanity, ranges the full spectrum of diversity, fyi – but you knew this already.
your definition of what it means to be gay should be applicable to women as well. maybe because i’m a feminist, and i’m gender neutral and all about gender equality, or i know a considerable number of bisexual women and lesbians, who knows? women who make out with other women, katy perry style, are 1) lame for being tools to male enslavement, to even consider making out with someone for her man’s pleasure – is she not a woman of worth? 2) considered hot. it is here where a double standard exists. two men kissing = sinners, gross, subhuman, gay. two women kissing = hot, sexy, confused, hot. lets not forget the women who kiss women because they like kissing women. as an aside, lesbianism is not my forté and is quite confusing, even for the butchiest lesbian.
would it be radical of me to suggest that all humans are capable of loving all genders, and even push the envelope to suggest that we’re all bisexual? do you know how many “straight” men i know that mess around with other men? in the black community it’s called the DL, in the white community it’s called men who have sex with men, and in latin america “gay men” are only gay when they are the passive partner. there are cultural differences, and we can only maintain a sense of cultural relativism when dealing with them; that is, we should understand those cultures within their context, and hopefully not judge them. but lets be real, if you’re messing around with the same sex, enjoy it, and do it more frequently than “occasionally,” one has to come to terms with her/his sexuality. now that’s the hard part – one of the many struggles to overcome. lots of men believe that a hole is a hole, a mouth is a mouth, just close your eyes. problem solved? idk.
i enjoyed reading your post. people, straight men especially, who think about these things, and publicly even, should be commended. you get a gold star sticker in my book, rishi.
ps hope life is good, man. take care.
pps sorry if i was too real or blunt. that’s just my style. “i ain’t neva lied and i ain’t neva scared” is my philosophy in life.
oh, and the most important comment by far:
the longest yard was a pretty decent movie. turley was badass. classic sandler, i think.